Know-How Exchange : Our Forum

Speaking of taking things seriously... please don't hit me with points for this question, Blaine. I'm not responding for the score, just to be part of the conversation! Thanks.

Thanks Phil. I feel the same way.

On one side of the coin, I don't care what the others think. Perhaps it truly is an issue of jumping into an arena more competetive than they imagined. For several months now, there has been a lot of discussion about how points should be awarded, point caps (earned and offered), and a few voting polls to determine who the "real" experts are based on the contribution of a dozen or so responses.

These particular people spend more time complaining rather than focusing on responding. This, of course, leads to a secondary result of not earning points...pushing them further and further down the totem pole. Some have said that the top 5 or so experts have so many points that it is impossible to compete. This is total crap! I started out at #200 and something and climbed my way up. So did Marcus, Gerardo, Michele, Jim, Andrew, Tim, Amanda, etc. They all came in after me and came right up on my ass. How? Read on...

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: "Participate, Participate, Participate if you want to have more influence in this community". I have NEVER claimed all of my answers are the best, most "expert", or of the highest quality. I can say that I respond how I respond. If a question inspires me to write an essay, I will do so. Likewise, if a question simply requires pointing someone to another site in order to get more specialized information (i.e. a post this week about CRM in which I directed the member to CRMguru.com for better advice...and earned 250 points). Now there are some that would say this is undeserved because I didn't really offer any expertise. My POV is I DID share some helpful information/knowledge in which this person did not possess. I sent him to a site where there are CRM experts waiting to jump all over questions such as his. So did I help him? Yes. Did I share some industry information? Yes. Did I take the time to do so? Yes. Did I write a few paragraphs of fluff in order to create some kind of preceived "expert behavior"? NO!!! Why? Because it's not necessary.

I stumbled across this forum back in Dec during the BETA trials. There were some questions posted in which I felt inclined to donate a little input, a different perspective than the other posts. As a result, I earned some points. Back then, there were a LOT of people flexing their marketing vocabulary, speaking in technical jargon, going off on different tangents, spending a paragraph or two on all the awards they won, name dropping, making suggestions on what the asker "should have asked" or what "the real question is...". I jumped in and did something absolutely crazy; I answered the questions. Amazingly, I started getting most of the points.

While the others (most of these folks are gone now) kept bragging and patronizing the askers, I kept answering. It was mind boggling when people would send me emails asking "How do you do it!!"

The first person with whom I shared my "secret" was ASVP/Chris. Now, he didn't ask me how, we just started talking off-site and I let him know. Next, I told Amanda Vega. Then, one day, I made it "public". It's kinda funny yet curious at the same time. I think several experts thought of this place as a virtual bragging water cooler... a place to match wits and vocabulary, rather than focus on answering questions. Not eveyone, but A LOT where doing this.

Anyway, it's cool to see that 100% of our current experts actually answer questions. Whether or not it's a link to another site or a dissertation, everyone is really trying.

I've already made it well known I feel Jim Deveau is a class act and certainly derserves my "vote" for Top Expert. Unfortunately, it's not up to me. It's up to Jim's participation, posts, and the people who read them (all stellar IMHO). Some other superstars I admire (please do not get offended if I leave your name out...just spitting a few off the top of my head): Michele, Marcus, Amanda, Katrina, Jerry (JBtron), Chris, Tim, Jacco, Deremiah, Cal, Andrew...just to name a few. I learn so much from their responses and they inspire me to learn more so that I can continue to give to this community.

I am very happy to be rated #1 overall. But like I stated before, I don't care about the points. I'm here to learn, network, look for potential clients, and have a little fun.

Shelley - DITTO...BIG TIME!! I'm glad that came to an end. What a relief!!

Virago- Thanks! Yeah, points fraud is someone stealing points, asking a question under another identity, then awarding themselves. Bad stuff. And it doesn't make sense.

It would be nice to be able to exchange points for "some THING", but they have to gain a level of value first. Until the KHE becomes a revenue stream, I doubt we will see any kind of MP store that accepts points. Except for promotional items like coffee mugs, mousepads, pens, Laptops, luxury cars, etc.

Inbox- Comeon...everybody's doin it!! What are you...a chicken? If you were cool you would share some points with me...

Shelley - Sorry sweetie! You don't get off that easy. But I will make you a deal. Post a response you feel is worthy of points regarding ANY subject, and I won't give you any, otherwise....

You worked your way up to where you are. No matter how many points someone gets, if they get a boost in the ranks, they have to work to keep the position. I have proved this several times over by moving people from #25 to #3...and they only last about a week or so. The points work. They are a reflection of your ability to help and contribute quality content. If I boost you, you will either keep it, or lose it.

I appreciate your altruism and modesty regarding the fact you feel your posts are just for fun, but the key to all of this is you are participating, and thereby contributing whether you realize it or not.

Sweet - I love reading your input. I think you are doing a great job and making a valuable contribution. Keep it up!

Tim- You know we are on the same page. I agree, most of the complainers wait for the "homeruns". Glad to see that you, Phil, and I share the same feelings.

Like I said above (probably while you were typing your post) , I think the only way MP could justify trading points for merchandise is if it is promotional to the site and the KHE. At least they could write it off (if there is certain merchandise that is "points purchase only").

Virago - I think you are right...it's a "king of the mountain" game for some. You know what, even during friend email exchanges between other experts, I have been referred to (sarcastically) as "The Almighty", "The Mighy and Powerful", "The Guru", etc. Not a very friendly context either; i.e. "I look forward to hearing more from THE GREAT AND POWERFULL JETT !!"...kinda one of those comments that make you go "hmmmmmm".

Cal - Thanks for gettin my back homey! What can I say, of course there is a certain level of ego and self-gratification involved..like your friend said "It's all about me".

This is a popular philosophy, "egoism"; it has many branches and is supported by minds such as Socrates and Thomas Hobbes Click Here for more on Egoism. Kant was able to provide a valid argument against the ideal of egoism, but it still exists.

Personally, I blame society, the Taliban, and those damn Joe Camel cigarette ads...WHY ME?!!! How could they do this?!?!!!

D-Rock - You crack me up. I love our attitude and your courage to be yourself and express your artistic style in a public forum where certain members have sent you emails asking you not to do this and/or act this way. Keep it up, man! Keep it real my brotha.

Thinkmor - Your observations and comments are well heeded. As a matter of fact, The person selling points was me! LOL. There is nothing else to do with them so I offered to sell them. MP agreed to split the cost with me so it was not pure profit. Unfortunately, a couple of...what's that other word for "donkey" or "mule"....? Anyway, they were turning it into an arguement so I shut it down and desicided to give the points away instead.

Personally, I think the point system works fine. As I stated above, one CAN climb the ladder if they possess the know-how and desire to participate. It would be nice to get a more descriptive response to my posts, but personally, I am not that interested in micro self-analysis. If I get points, then I feel like I must have been helpful. If I don't, it doesn't make me feel like a loser. I merely assume that my response was not best for that person. I cannot please everyone, nor will I attempt to. My posts are extentions of how I would react if that person was my client...and many of those responses are repeated and accepted in other questions. So I don't really feel the need to get a rating or a reason why someone didn't like my answer.

Thanks again! I really enjoy your posts...very informative and professional.

Jason - Well, congrats on discovering your points! Maybe one day we can use them for something other than questions! Thanks !

Ricky - You know I love you and your fun atittude! And I appreciate your kind words.

Thanks for bring up the Flawed Point System question! That was a good one.

I suggest all new people to click on the link below in order to see some of the previous discussion on points...especially all of you who have a problem with the points!!!!

https://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=261#1734

Gary - Thanks for you views. You are right. It has turned into a lead gnerator for many of the members.

However, regarding the "inner circle" topic, this is why the "About our Forum" section was created...so people can post questions and discuss the forum vs. marketing issues.

Nobody is excluded. ANYONE is welcome to comment in this section and have the chance to earn points. If I move it to "Strategy", where more people will see it, Val will just move it back into this section.

Anyway, Thanks again for your participation!

Den E V - You are welcome! Just for the record...the points purchase was for QUESTION points, not expert pints. So if someone buys points, it does not affect their rank.

BTW - I always enjoy reading your contributions!

Andrew -Nice haiku!

we obviously see things from the same POV. Thanks for your kind words about my posts. I usually try to make it a bit interesting...

Gary - Do me a favor...take a look at the questions about our forum that had no point reward and compare the responses and response rate to this one.

Whether it's about the forum or not, people are motivated to be rewarded for their time and input.

If I am wrong...please prove it.

D-Rock - Keep me smiling! Hey, I know what you can do...you can buy one of my paintings!

Gary - I never said people don't care about points. My question is why are some (like you) so concerned about what I do with my points?

Jose - Thank you, Thank You, thank you! What can I say? You took the words right out of my mouth!

Gary - Are you concerned that I may give the points to Deremiah, putting him ahead of you? If so, why? Do you think he does not deserve it?

I am posting the question, I am offering the points, and I will decide who gets them, just like any other asker.

Gary- FYI- I'm not the only one you rub the wrong way on a regular basis.

Don't bark little doggy unless you intend to bite.

I take this rather personally, as I believe I am one of the offenders (if not THE offender) that Jett is thinking is complaining about points. And I am disappointed that he has taken this to the open area from the private area (There are offline conversations about how to improve KHE which would provide examples of what has been said - you'd have to see those to judge whether I am "complaining", which I don't believe I am).

I have been making suggesting about points and what I think are improvements. I have been intrigued with the point system used here. Comparing to other message boards, this one gets a lot of usage, and I attribute much of that to the point system.

But, I have also seen some things go on here which I feel reduce the effectiveness of points as a way to bring people in, such as massive awarding of points just for the hell of it. I think this comes from not having a use for all the points someone can gain.

Some of the suggestions I have made include:
- stop awarding the daily points after someone has say 1000 points (these are the points given each day just for being a member). You can still gain points through answering questions. This would help increase the value of answering questions, but still allow enough points for people to post questions.
- limit maximum point value that can be awarded (both makes the list of who are 'experts' more representative of people who provide value over time, not to answering one high point question, plus helps keep someone's massive points awarded question from drowing out other question given lower point value).
- find a way to increase the value of points, perhaps by KHE making goods like imprinted mugs or premium membership available for purchase with points.

If you believe these are complaining, my apologies. My goal was to try to improve KHE. Each suggestion was done because I felt they would improve KHE in one way or another, not to improve my points. I am not after points (though of course, my ego does like that I am on the list of 'experts'), and this is shown by my having more than once asked the moderator not to award points to me (inlcuding once when Jett was giving me points).

Very disappointing - I guess that brainstorming style suggestions can not be made on the private area (that was purposedly set up to brainstorm on ways to improve KHE), less Jett will 'out' you.

There is a refrain " Only they will through stones to the tree that has fruits". Then be proud to have fruits and forgive the outside interventions.

Bye,

Juan Carlos

Peter - I never named you, but thanks for coming forward.

Sorry I can't shed a tear for you. Also, I'm sorry you can dish it out but can't take it. I seem to remember you openly bashing me in public by accusing me of being a point monger in my previous question.

Don't bash me in public, then whine about getting a little criticism yourself.

Remember, I never mentioned your name. You did that for us...and if you read any of the above, most of the people obviously had no idea who I was talking about. Now they do!

I refrained from using names for this very reason. So please spare us the drama of naming yourself, then accusing me of "outing" you. You "outed" yourself.

So tell me, what would you do if I gave all the points to you? Give them back? Use them? What?

If I were to award one person all of these points, it would be the oppurtunity for them to prove just how "expert" they are since it will boost you up the ranks, and like I said before, you have to work to keep it. I have done this a few times and most people drop back down the ladder almost as fast as I shot them up.

So, you would not want the chance? You complain about all the points I have, so here they are...do you want them? Can you handle it?

Juan - Interesting. Thank You!

I believe you are incorrect - you outed me (and brought up subjects there from the offline discussions) in https://www.marketingprofs.com/ea/qst_question.asp?qstID=2706.

My post there about riding the bike was meant to be light hearted. You didn't take it that way, and lashed back (which is a method you seem to take with anyone you disagree with - even done to at least one other in this message thread).

On your question - I don't look at my points, so don't care if I recieve them or not. I have more points than I can use, so they have no real value for me.

Peter, I did not mention your name in THIS question.

I do not "attack" people who disagree with me. You did more than simply disagree, you made some pretty inflammatory allegations about me "outing" you, bringing certain subjects up in the "live"/public forum, etc.

You made an attempt to chastise me and label me as a defamatory figure. So expect a a strong reply if you are going to talk to me in that manner. Not to mention this like the 4th or 5th time you have made it a point to bring up your obsession in almost EVERY question I ask that is more than 250 points. My tolerance is wearing thin.

I don't believe the bike comment was light-hearted. You specifically stated "You really should be out riding that mountain bike instead of spending all the time earning more points than you could ever use.". Coming from the biggest whiner about points and how they are used, your comment was not taken lightly.

So not only to I earn too may points, I use them too much, or at least not the way you want me too.

Your suggestions on point caps, restrictions, etc. sound very socialist to me. Like I said before, quit worrying about my questions and start answering some of those other questions you mentioned that are getting "drown out" by my questions. Since you are so concerned, why aren't you helping them instead of wasting your time here yapping about it?

Anyway, if you feel so victimized by my candid remarks, call a crisis hotline or something. Maybe they can help you deal with it.


P.S. The above is meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner. Please do not "attack" me. LOL

Thanks Shelley!

And yes, let's get back to the real issue. This is the second question in a row in which the "synergy" was interrupted.

Maybe we can place a "Ban this person from responding to my question" feature..LOL.

OK. 50 responses in less than 24 hours. WOW!

I'm actually a very nice guy. Ever ounce of my heart, soul, and time goes into my clients and this forum (aside from what is reserved for God and my family). Helping people solve problems while doing what I love AND growing a business so huge that I'm having to start bringing on partners....I couldn't ask for more!

As everyone can see, if you are looking for buttered up responses, I'm not the guy for the job. Of course, I have been getting better about jumping down people's throats...believe it or not...just ask Val! Honestly, when it happens, I don't lose sleep, but a bit of regret starts to creep in later...in one form or another:

Form 1: Perhaps I was a little hard on the bloke.

Form2: Perhaps I wasn't hard enough.

At any rate, the other day, one of my clinets tlod me the following: "Blaine, I have only said this to two other men in my life; my father and my son, so please take it in such a context when I save I love you.". This was after helping him decide on some very sensitive busines decisions. You see, I have worked for this man for over 9 months now and have not received on penny. My efforts have brought his product from hisgarage to having global distributors beating down the door. His internet sales multiplied exponentially, his website is #1-#5 on google, and so on. I offered to help him for free until the business got stable enough to afford a consultant fee.

Another client could only afford half of what I quoted. He was a very passionate man with nothing more than an idea and a fist full of dollars. I accepted. Now, he has a website, an online magazine, an Editor in Chief, models, photographers, writers, PR campaigns, publicists, etc...he not only has the tools, but the courage and know-how to take on the world with his vision and 100% more focus and confidence than he had before.

What's my point? Even though I may occasionally come across as a mean asshole, that is only one small crumb off the bigger piece of who I am.

Thanks to everyone who can see through and tolerate the negatives, and recognize the positives.

To those who cannot, just go way...unless you want another earful.

Better - Thank you for your spirited response. I feel...well...BETTER!!

Cal - Thanks for bringing up Godel's Theorem. I didn't want to get to "deep" since it is all a collaboration of perpsectives anyway (relativity?).

I think the topic of egosim is interesting. It suggests that even Mother Theresa was not purely samaritan...because she HAD to receive some kind of reward; whether it be personal satisfaction by pleasing God, warm and fuzzy feelings, Nobel Prize, global recognition, "saint" status, or whatever. No matter how much or little you give, you always get "something" in return. Interesting looking glass.

Yeah, that Joe Camel...I wanted to be just like that camel...looking cool while smoking cigarettes. Now they are using 1920's and 30's swing dancers...I went out and bought the hat, chain, fly jacket and everything! LOL.

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread.

I have an important statement regarding the the drama/dispute between Peter and I.

With so many strong minds "cooking in the kitchen" , there is bound to be a certain level of disagreement. Both Peter and myself are very strong-willed, opinionated people who at times, disagree to the point of inflammation.

Hving that been said, I am VERY impressed and appreciative of Peter's knowledge, creative POV, and contributions to this site. In no way, shape, or form is my dipute with him to be interpreted as a negative perception of his abilitiy or expertise. Believe it or not, I like Peter. His input is invaluable to this forum and I look forward to more of his insight,opinions, and advice...even if I don't always agree.

The dispute you witnessed in the thread above is an excellent example of how this forum allows people to speak their mind, get "pissy", and come to a resolution in a spontaneous fashion. We are all professionals, and pros will lock horns every once in awhile. It's the beauty of open discussion.

Although, I did not award Peter any points, I should have. For that, I apologize and will attempt to rectify via the MP staff.

For the record, I made this last post on my own accord. Ny no means was I asked to "reconsile" by the staff or any other person. Only through hindsight did I come to the conclusion the above statements and clarifications were necessary.

Keep up the good work Peter!

Blaine,

My moma would be proud of you:-) She always loved it when after a squabble we kissed and made up. You're a GREAT MAN!

Your Servant, Deremiah, *CPE (Customer Passion Evangelist)